Weekly updates and Language Discussion

[these_balls]

This weeks weather forecast is as follows:

Today/Tuesday was listed last week as clearing up after all that rain :)

Wednesday

Clear, sunny, comfortable temperatures around the 70s. Low wind.

Thursday

Clear, sunny, comfortable temperatures hanging around 70s and might even spike to almost 80 midday. Humidity feels like it is going up again. Low wind.

Friday

Clear, excessive sunshine, excessive heat. Temperatures between 85-90. Not even a breeze of wind today. High humidity.

Saturday

Clear, excessive sunshine, excessive heat. Temperatures between 90-almost 100. Very very mild breeze. High humidity; you guys will be sweating and it will not evaporate. Ew, smelly trainers!

Sunday

Clear, excessive sunshine, excessive heat. Temperatures between 80-85. Light 5MPH wind is going, so at least there's a chance of evaporating all that smelly sweat. High humidity, but nearing nightfall there will be dark clouds rolling in, and most wild Pokemon will be harder to find as they're preparing their shelters :)

Monday

Barely after midnight, a nasty thunderstorm is cracking into high gear, dropping buckets of water. Once the sun comes up, that rain is turning into golf ball sized hail, so best to take some shelter! It will remain a mixture of hail and rain throughout the day and for the rest of the night.
High 20MPH winds whip that water and ice around like nobodys business, and no wild Pokemon would be caught out in this weather so fat chance you guys will find anything unless its joining you in a cave.
Humidity is dropping steadily though so it's easier to dry off. Temperatures range in the low 60s, possibly dropping to 55.

Tuesday

The hail dissipates overnight and it remains raining hard, thunder cracking and lightning zapping through the air. Electric types will certainly like this weather, and water types will enjoy the rain.
Rain will linger all day at a steady pace, and slowly dwindle into drizzling as night arrives. Super low humidity, wind has dropped down to a mild 10MPH that comes in breezes, temperatures hanging around the low 60s.

Notes: Your characters may purchase umbrellas at the Cherrygrove store starting on Tuesday /o/ they are P100 and don't really break unless you try attacking someone with it (you wouldn't, would you?). Uhhh, there was something else but Okami is brainfarting and can't remember what it was fffffffffffffff IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WEATHER, please feel free to hit her up! (She picked it! Also, PMing her personal journal would be preferred to asking here as we are having a big discussion below.)


Weekly Friend Add/Remove
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Language Discussion!

As for the language discussion, we've decided to ask the players for input before making a complete decision, seeing as this will affect the game as a whole. We would appreciate that you speak to us here, or on AIM, or continue using the questions/concerns and the F.A.Q., rather than jumping to anoncomm for every other circumstance.

First and foremost, we were both disappointed when we heard from a plethora of players that they had not known about the language barrier, when it had been part of the game since the start. To hear that people had not read it is very discouraging to us, but seeing as the game is still new and we are both forgiving people, we would like to ask that you be sure to read these things next time!

Now, for the subject at hand, we've received a handful of suggestions on how to appease the language barrier.

Suggestion 1: Remove the language barrier.
This seems like the one most of the anonymous comments have been suggesting. Rather than mess with the technical issues, just erase it.
[+] It would be easier to continue with "ignoring" the barrier and pretending it was never there.
[-] It dampens the fact that this is a "jamjar" game. They were summoned into Johto using technology, not magic. It would be illogical to have them suddenly speaking the same language without reason.

Suggestion 2: Keep the language barrier make but make PokéGear usage easier.
Instead of having the robot voice, have something sounding similar to the character to keep the inflection and feeling of the character speaking.
[+] The message and feeling of the speaking would travel through to the other characters.
[-] Face-to-face communications might be tricky, depending on how this is fully set up.

Suggestion 3: Keep the language barrier but have subtitles.
The character's voice would still be their native tongue, but their words would translate to the language of the receiving character's PokéGear.
[+] The inflection would not be changed. The meanings would get across directly.
[-] Face-to-face communications may be awkward, seeing as you would have to use your PokéGear to understand them.

Out of all of the suggestions, those were the ones we figured could clear things up the best. If there are other ones, or if we missed some, feel free to tell us here as well. Here's your chance for everyone to talk to us and each other and we can all figure out something that will work best for all of us.

Comments

[shirou-machi.livejournal.com]

i hope i'm leaving this in the right place--please correct me if not

i think the first suggestion for the language barrier is the best. i wouldn't worry about trying to avoid magic in a world where you already have talking animals and 8-bit music following you wherever you go. pokemon is already a fairly silly franchise so i don't think it would hurt the game to continue in that vein. i am looking forward to seeing what everyone else thinks though.

[dreamship]

Don't worry, you're leaving it in the perfect place!

Well, we were trying to avoid it in the sense that it wasn't all magic to begin with, since in pokeworld, pokemon are just animals and the 8-bit music, but I understand what you're saying. Thank you!

[restardom.livejournal.com]

I do like the first one the best, for the same reasons the first person said. I mean, 8-bit music everywhere you go can't be completely technological in the first place; it's sort of like a blend, if that makes sense. But if we're sticking with that idea, the third isn't bad, either. A bit awkward, maybe, but as long as the meanings get across, it wouldn't be too hard.

... Though then I thought of the PokeGear occasionally providing glorious Babelfish translations and how beautifully that would end so don't mind me.

[dreamship]

So first or third? Babelfish would be pretty interesting to see played out. You might accidentally call your new friend a three legged dog or something.

[donteatmyliver.livejournal.com]

/Likes the first one best as well.

Though I'm with Rise-mun in the "Oh god what if the translations suck, that'd be hilarious and awkward" boat as well.

[dreamship]

So first or third for you too? Hmm.... /strokes beard

[foolishwren]

Out of the three ideas, the subtitles one seems like the best option if we're going for realism and still want there to be an option of lulzy language barrier awkwardness without making it absolutely required that communicating with anyone from other series be a complete challenge.

Face-to-face interactions might be a bit weird, sure, but I don't think they'll get in the way too much.

[foolishwren]

But then, my character speaks English and hasn't been outside the U.S. so......

[seasalttwilight.livejournal.com]

I'm inclined to go with choice one, just for ease of play. In between worrying about where our characters are, what pokemon we have, battles, experience and all that stuff, the language barrier just becomes one more worry. (and I'm not really fond of giving Roxas a specific language, since I do not like the theory of "If it was made in Japan, they're automatically Japanese unless otherwise stated". But that's a me thing that can be sucked up if necessary). There is a level of logic and realism to go for, and I accept that, but Pokemon isn't the most logical series in existence.

So if I had to choose, this is what it would be: Suggestion 1, Suggestion 3, Suggestion 2.

I do however, appreciate you mods coming to us players and including us in the decision making. Thank you.

[dreamship]

Well, as we figured in the Language Meme, the Disney characters would still speak disnese, or multilingual by nature, so we wouldn't change that if we do keep the languages. But your points besides that do make sense as well.

Thanks~

[soccerandsoup.livejournal.com]

Oh jeez. That's so tough. :(

Roxy-mun is right though, you guys are wonderful for leaving the choice to your players. <3

I think I'll vote for the first choice. It could lead to fun arguments about what language everyone is speaking. XD

"We're speaking English!"

"No! We're speaking French!"

The hard part is fitting that into the mechanics of the world, though, like you guys said... See, if our characters have been, say, sucked into a video game, the technological explanation behind the language translations could be that everything you say automatically gets filtered and then reset to the listener's default language... Yeah, I read William Gibson too much, I totally stole that from the Bridge trilogy. What was I saying? I don't remember. I'll vote for the first option. XD

[dreamship]

Thanks, guys! We figured that would be the best choice, since you're all playing here as well.

Though I hadn't thought of the "general language" arguments. Those would be pretty amusing too. Thank you! (I'll have to check out those books now too!)

[kungfumaniac.livejournal.com]

I am going to go with choice 1.

Mostly because I don't speak a word of Japanese. I wouldn't know what English phrases Chie would have learned in school.
I mean, it would be sort of fun of we kept the barrier because she could teach people phrases she says. But I would freak out if I was getting the Japanese wrong or right or. whatever. The entire time. I would stress out over it and, really, I don't want to feel stressed during a hobby.

[foolishwren]

I can definitely understand this concern-- though I'm sure nobody would begrudge you use of brackets or other things-- a la "[Everything in Chie's dialogue that's in brackets is Japanese]". I've seen people do that a lot when they're writing a character who speaks a language that they don't personally know.

But of course if you don't want to do that, your concerns are still something the mods will take into consideration, I'm sure!

[derangedhen.livejournal.com]

so, question, re: the nature of these translations in 2 and 3. how um. how precise are these translations intended to be? I know I saw something like "gonna" will be autocorrected to "going to" in whatever language it's being put in, but is it autotranslating things like syntax?

THIS IS PROBABLY THINKING FAR TOO MUCH but I ask because I have this doctor here who is pretty much allergic to proper grammar and would probably be impossible to understand in any kind of translation. like Engrish x1000000. and I guess if the point of the language barrier is to make things more realistic, then it kind of logically follows that characters that have these kinds of speech habits would be incomprehensible. 'cause translators aren't magically talented.

I think this made sense.

[dreamship]

I think we'd most likely give a leeway when it comes to how precise they are. It would generally be normal but then you could probably mess around babelfish style if you felt like. It could be like the google translator. Most of the time that makes sense, no matter how badly it's written, but every once in a while you'll get "you my eat pizza carrot" when you're asking about a cigarette or something.

[clearlyaline.livejournal.com]

While I agree with everyone else on the fact that the first would be the easiest, it would be by far the most uninteresting. I like the language barrier, though I fail at playing it out because lol idk what half the rockets speak. I have the good fortune of playing a character who is a genius, and would know several languages fluently.

My vote goes to option 3.

But partially because it reminds me of the time I wrote an piece on Lord of the Flies in high school and there were actually subtitles in the characters' visions. It was a lot of fun and my class really enjoyed it.

[dreamship]

...Subtitles in the characters' visions? That sounds pretty neat, actually.

[savethefarron.livejournal.com]

Stormy already knows I like option one.

Characters magically lost their powers and magically hear 8-bit music, so why not magically speak the same language?

I feel like the language barrier is picking and choosing what pieces of realism you want. Realism would be keeping their powers, native tongues, and all. You say they all lose their powers so they are more like trainers in the Pokemon games. Do trainers in the games have language barriers?

I dunno, it just feels jarring. :)

Either way, I applaud that you guys are opening this up. Anons should just be quiet and let you do your jobs. =|b

[dreamship]

XD I know, I know.

[destinyfruit.livejournal.com]

I go with suggestion one. Players (myself included) have been handwaving/magic air-ing and that has worked just fine. :x I think it works with the free nature of the rp.

[hintcoinplz.livejournal.com]

I'm putting my vote towards option 1. With everyone keeping track of the Pokemon they've caught, leveling up and all that, not having to worry about what languages every speaks makes things a lot easier. And I don't think language barriers were ever talked about in the actual games/anime (though I could be mistaken about that, it's been a while!).

For funsies, maybe there could be future events where auto-translating languages goes terribly wrong? (For some reason I keep picturing horribly dubbed Godzilla-esque movies. Voices not syncing up to lip movement, etc.)

[dreamship]

We've been considering that as an event if we take out the translation. It would be gloriously awful.

[purposetofight.livejournal.com]

Personally, like I said in the chat... I'd prefer option 1. Yeah, its boring, but it saves headaches in trying to figure out who can understand what.

If the language barrier stays, though, subtitle-o-vision plz. Easier then looking at the Pokegear (and also frees up the use of wonderful hands) and also sounds cool.

[thisdesertrose.livejournal.com]

I like the first one best as well. Sure this is a jamjar game but considering many people already forgot the language barrior or ignored it... well, it may be hard to suddenly go back. Not to mention someone said the NPCs can suddenly speak their languages and the fact that this is pokemon, a somewhat silly show/game...

Yeah, I think just erasing that barrier would be easier and best.

[travelbycandy.livejournal.com]

idk I'm kind of like

w/e Sora would understand it all anyway

/helpful

[useflamethrower.livejournal.com]

Same here lmao.

/brofist

[playingyou.livejournal.com]

I like the commitment to immersion that 2 or 3 would show, but I really think suggestion 1 is the most playable. There is a LOT the players have to keep in mind immediately upon joining the game. A lot of stuff that is very sharply different from what they'd assume. Having a language barrier so that people can't even communicate on the mingling intro log (where lots of characters won't even know how to use their Pokegear yet!) is just too much all at once.

Which is why, frankly, most players are just ignoring the language guidelines under the assumption that they would never last.

If we do keep a language barrier, someone is going to have to REALLY police it for a long time until it becomes part of the game's culture.

Also, there is the issue where some characters' canons don't address languages at all (Star Ocean series, etc), so what language are those guys speaking anyway?

[dreamship]

For canons that aren't in any set language, you could go with "anime = Japanese", or "their names are James and Lily so they must speak English" or see which languages would fit the culture. Or even the languages it's dubbed in. For KH/FF, we've just been allowing all the languages it's dubbed into, or Sora's worlds (so Sora can speak English, Japanese, Icelandic, in addition to Lion and Fish, etc.).

Though you're right, if we did go with two or three, we'd have to make sure it's followed.

[brthrs-watchdog.livejournal.com]

I've played in games that have had the first option before and it's been rather amusing, like with what Amanda said ("We're speaking this language!" "No, this language!")

Though if we go for any other suggestion, I think I like what someone else mentioned -- a visible subtitles thing.

I might suggest something somewhat off topic-- link the first "How Long It Takes" post whenever an influx of new players come in, or at least in their app. I'm not sure if I've seen this, since there are so many people, but I suddenly realized some of them may not have seen that, nor the list of Pokemon, unless they asked on AIM.

[dreamship]

So visible subtitles or full translation? Got it.

We're going to move it to the maps section soon. Sorry! We're still updating everything on some parts.

[used-beatup.livejournal.com]

Option 3 or Option 1 for me. My character wouldn't personally have many problems since most of the characters in the game are Japanese, so I wouldn't mind option 3, but -

Pokemon as an anime is a children's show, and those tend to avoid language barriers even in a series that is highly international (such as Shaman King.)

Likewise in any video games every character is kind of molded together to speak the same language in order to save trouble. So if we were keeping it in the spirit of Pokemon, option 1 seems the likeliest.

[dreamship]

Well, with Shaman King, at least for the original one, they all had their different languages but they just naturally spoke a common one as well. 4kids version threw everything out of the window, though.

But point taken, otherwise.

[islandshore.livejournal.com]

I agree with option 1, but in addition, regarding the concerns of magic--

Perhaps you could use Arceus as an excuse, like with powers and items?

But option 2 wouldn't be bad, either, if it kept the inflections and so on. The main concern I had in regard to the PokeGear doing the translating is that robo voice isn't particularly endearing, and in a world where proper clones can be made, I'm sure the technology exists to make them sound normal.

Alternatively, maybe introduce an item that can translate within a certain radius that can be bought in, say, Goldenrod?

[dreamship]

The item thing might work. The only problem with that is that it might take some characters a while to get to Goldenrod, and they'd be stuck with the translation issue until then. While it would be interesting and a way to balance things out, we'd have to see.

[draconicfury.livejournal.com]

I say go with choice one, but let them have the choice to still text their native language (however THAT'd work) or speak it once they've figured out "Oh hey wait, how the hell am I understanding them".

So I guess the place could translate what they say commonly into...whatever the hell the Pokeuniverse speaks (English? Japanese? Kantonese?) but be able to use their own language if they feel like it. You know in case the muns feel the language barrier would be useful in like plotting or strategizing with their Pokemon (since it's obvious that Pokemon understand what they're saying even when the language barrier was still in place)

[dreamship]

So verbally they would all sound the same but it would translate via text?

XD Pokemon are just awesome that way, apparently.

[magical-logic.livejournal.com]

I don't really have any language barrier preference and will roll with whatever the consensus is, but there is one thing I want to point out for consideration, and that's non-human characters that natively speak non-human languages.

Like, say somebody wants to app, like, an alien that has mouthparts that humans don't and lacks certain necessary human mouthparts. Or communicates via scent. Or telepathy or whatever. Something that human speech can't mimic, is what I'm getting at. There's the question of how such characters would communicate with strange new mouthparts that are incapable of forming any language they know, and Everybody Speaks Common is the tidiest and most universal solution to that.

Something I've seen done that might be worth considering is that everybody speaks Common by default, but if they consciously try to speak a specific language, then they can.

[magical-logic.livejournal.com]

Oh! Oh! Something else I just thought of! If we end up keeping the language barrier, I don't think I saw it mentioned anywhere what language the NPC's are speaking? I would assume Japanese, since the various Pokemon regions are based on real-world regions of Japan, but some clarification couldn't hurt.

[hiddenhyena.livejournal.com]

Just...going with one, it may be boring but. It'd be easier, I guess.

[bravegreen.livejournal.com]

Going to agree with number one, just because that's uh. Kind of how I thought the languages worked when I first started 83; But I can deal with whatever it ends up being.

[scarfidol.livejournal.com]

I love the weather reports. random fyi.

I like the first choice the best. They're technically in a game world, right? So I guess everything would be translated either way.

The visible subtitles thing sounds pretty cool as well, though.

[serpensrex.livejournal.com]

I think everybody's already hit most of the reasons for all the options, so I don't think there's anything I can really add.

I think the first choice is the best.