Route 29: Stay or Leave?

[these_balls]

As I am sure you are all aware of, Livejournal has undergone a good handful of changes that have made roleplaying here just a little more difficult. With how the staff of Livejournal and the ones in charge of the code have responded and interacted with the members, it looks as though these changes will be permanent.

Therefore, we have been considering moving our game to another site altogether. This is a poll for all of the current players of Route 29, as we are leaving the decision to a majority vote. Please only vote with one journal per player, be it character or personal.

We request that everyone vote in this poll so that your opinions are heard. If you choose not to vote, then we will assume that your decision is to follow whichever decision is reached at the end.

Now, our choices:
- Move to Dreamwidth.org
- Move to Insanejournal.com
- Move to Scribbld.com
- Move elsewhere? (Suggest location in comments)
- Remain on Livejournal.com



[Poll #1806041]

This Poll will remain open until January 16, 2012 at 11:59 pm.

Please type your answer into the box above. Answers are hidden from the players so no one is pressured to go along with any majority vote and can make the decision for themselves. The poll's window is open for a long point so those on holiday hiatuses will also have a chance to vote. Also, don't feel as though you have to rush your vote! You can take some time and check out the other sites before making a final decision.


Because some of these sites are probably new and unfamiliar to some of you, we've compiled a list of pros and cons for each site so you may make a wiser decision.


Dreamwidth.org
Pros:
- Friendly staff (so far)
- The "prettier" site of the other choices
- Capable of importing old entries, comments, icons, profile data, and more.
- Very easy to navigate
- Longer usernames, post word-count, and comment word-count
- No advertisements
- Uploading multiple icons at once

Cons:
- Layouts are different (though there is a code to adjust flexible squares)
- Table coding doesn't always transfer over well
- Invite codes necessary to create accounts (however, the staff does give a permanent code for games so this can be worked around)
- Comment responses don't go to your 'inbox', only email, for notifications.

More differences between Livejournal and Dreamwidth can be found Here.


Insanejournal.com
Pros:
- 100 icons with a basic account
- Adapts to table coding very well

Cons:
- Basic format isn't very sightly
- Layout coding is a challenge at times
- No default tab titles (pages read like "2367.html" instead of "01 [video]")
- Considered offensive to some with usage of 'patients' and 'asylum'
- Notification difficulties (hit or miss)
- (nearly) no ongoing maintenance/quiet staff
- Can't edit comments


Scribbld.com
Pros:
- Like a smaller, younger livejournal (very similar to LJ)
- 50 icons with a basic/free account

Cons:
- Difficult to navigate (many parts not on the navigation bar)
- the least familiar (everything will be a learning experience for us all)

Another Pros and Cons list; thank you, Kiwi!


Livejournal.com
Pros:
- Everything is already here
- Most familiar

Cons:
- Layouts would wither be simpler or comment pages
- No subject lines would mean for necessary changes in uniform format
- Staff disagreements and future updates which may compromise comfortable RP longterm


Despite the mod team's personal feelings on the matter, we will accommodate with the majority vote. Also, if there are other Journal-esque sites which we just haven't heard of yet but you think may be a decent place for us to play, please let us know in the comments and we'll see how those fare with our playerbase as well.

If the tallying votes all point to us moving and adjusting to a new site, we'll make the necessary notions to assist anyone who is willing to make the change with us. We may not all be able to move in one large wave, but we don't want to leave anyone behind, so we're willing to move anyone who is willing to move with us.

ETA: Dreamwidth is also allowing anyone to make accounts without a code until the end of December, in case one would like to snag an account now. Insanejournal and Scribbld don't require codes, so accounts can be made at any time, but dreamwidth is a bit time-sensitive at the moment.


Thanks, everyone! And we hope everyone's having a great holiday season. Let's keep our spirits up for a wicked 2012!

Comments

[urbaninja.livejournal.com]

I admit I am reluctant to move. If the game does move I will move and if it stays I'll stay. But I am reluctant.

This is a partly monetary reason. My Roxas journal has a paid and well, I'd like to feel I got $35 worth out of it before having to leave.

I'm also concerned about how the move would go. This is a journal based game after all so it'd be a lot different than moving a comm based game. Especially if people have changed usernames, etc. It would take a lot of organization.

Thirdly, I want to hope that people are considering this move in the frame of mind that this action is the best move for the game. That it is going to help rather than hinder our growth as an RP. I don't know about anyone else but I feel like a lot of haste and pressure is being put on people to make a decision and that we need to move right fricking now so that we can make a statement. That really rubs me the wrong way and I feel that this is a big decision which deserves some thought and a clear head.

+1

[meatysoviet.livejournal.com]

I second this sentiment. I also have paid accounts and packages, and have concerns with this being a journal based and not a community based game. While it's easier for most games to move over, Route will take an awful lot of organisation.

[newhero.livejournal.com]

At the end of the day, what I really want is for us to do whatever is in the best interest of our players and the game itself. I don't really have an opinion on whether we stay or go.

If the game does move, however, I'll probably drop instead of following. There are a lot of different reasons why, most of them being time constraints and a lack of interest in learning my way around a new site-- I'll be sad if we do move, but like I said, I would rather do what's best for the game, no matter what it is.

[these_balls]

Well, if we decide to move in the end, we're going to do our best to make sure the players and everyone can get a good hang of how the chosen site works as well so no one's completely left in the dark. But if you choose not to follow a move, I'll continue to wish you all the best.

Buuuut hopefully we can keep you as long as we do have with you, though. Don't go anywhere on us just yet, Diane!

[skillspanner]

Offering a contrasting opinion to the one above. While I understand it, I've been looking at it from a different perspective this entire time.

I have paid time as well, but the usability of the site has gone done vastly for me; even our makeshift custom layout gives me headaches.

I'm of firm belief that no customer, paying or otherwise should have to jump through hoops to make a website work the way they need it to. With the planned changes (overall site interface, lack of nested threads, inability to credit icons?), I don't feel as is LJ is moving in a direction that is beneficial to LJRP on the whole. I think a lot of people's reluctance lies on a fear of change (not everyone or ANYONE in particular, just an observation I've made via all the talk EVERYWHERE). All it takes is a good amount of people willing to make the plunge and we could have major beneficial changes for the community.

I don't think the transition would be that difficult; all it takes is commenting on the taken lists with something like "usedkunai is now windamp!" (dependent on what server, if any, we move to. DW just has easy linkback coding) -- if the mods are willing to make the effort to change the usernames on the taken list, then it just leaves the rest of us.

Importing entries is incredibly easy, and even if you don't want to -- you can link back to the previous entries on LJ. It doesn't change. The content is still here, even if you choose to play new stuff elsewhere, you know? Once you get past those initial things, everything would likely be pretty smooth -- things work exactly the same otherwise, save for some minor things depending on the site.

It doesn't mean we have to abandon our fandoms or other games that remain on LJ. But I don't feel as if I'm getting my money's worth on LJ with the poor treatment we're getting from the higher ups. And as an additional note, one of DW's admins said he was actually EXCITED to support RP on DW which has been motivating him to finish the community importer. It's refreshing, in my opinion.

I don't feel like a lot of us who want to move are being rash. I've been on LJ since 2002 and I'm honestly fed up with the treatment and would much rather put my money and time into a site that will treat me better as it stands right now.

Of course, I will stay of the game stays, albeit with no paid accounts (I will miss you, icons!), but I would do so only because I love the game and the people in it. I agree that people should think about it hard, especially if they're on the fence, but I fully support a move and I have no qualms about stating it.

+1

[homofuckiens.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much this. I have already imported a journal or two.

My concern isn't about aesthetics or the like, it's about the principle that guides customer service. I do not want to pay this site anymore if their idea of good customer service is a "deal with it" philosophy.

[usedwaterpulse]

I'll repeat what I've said on Plurk and in my other main game's poll. My reasons for wanting to move have gone beyond just functionality and aesthetics. I don't know if anyone else in game has had this issue, but there've been users complaining about being billed for paid time when they cancelled their subs. already. I myself also have three charges on my card and no email notification to explain which accounts I'm paying for, and the dates are not adding up (I'm always notified the day the payment is taken, yet I have payments for the 19th and no notifications. Now my bank account has been overdrawn and I've been charged fees. :/). I'm honestly disgusted that a site that has had such loyal customers for so long, especially paying ones, would turn around and do this kind of crap, or let someone on staff get away with it. Not only the immaturity of Ingrick (or whatever his name is), but this business with the payments as well.

I think that's something that should be taken into consideration as well as a general warning for any users with debit, credit, or bank accounts attached to LJ. I'm fairly certain they can't do that through Paypal for various reasons, but I'm for moving because I'd rather minimize what time I spend on a site I can't even trust. I'll have to cancel my card and probably close my account because of this mess (since I have a history with LJ and they have that info).

Especially when I'd prefer to have icon options without juggling a million free accounts.

I'll follow the game. If it stays, I'll stay, if it moves, I'll move.

+1

[thefourthtry.livejournal.com]

Everything you've said is exactly how I feel.

Steph's account was also billed extra. As were several other accounts I have in different games.

[phoenix-temple.livejournal.com]

I'd like to add to the "con" list of livejournal that it is quite literally unusable for some people. Netbooks have trouble loading pages, and some older computers simply won't let the new comments page load at all. I know that my own computer, which is less than a year old, is constantly freezing if I try to use LJ with any other site, including Plurk and Gmail. I also have to refresh several times to get custom comment pages to load all the comments. The workarounds are fine for now, but as seen at SC (http://i.imgur.com/Bj9Vw.png), they do break. That's a big concern because I know there's at least a few people who will want to stay in the game but can't because LJ simply doesn't work. And it's not just comment pages that are going to get altered--they're planning to change the whole site. There have already been countless complaints of headaches from looking at the site scheme, and several occasions of panic attacks due to lacking the subject line in communities.

Along with the lovely "automatic paid" glitch, the glitches that have allowed others to log into random accounts and see private information, the DDoS attacks and the unprofessional attitude of the LJ staff (I particularly love when legit concerns got called "spam"), I think there's some big issues to sticking around LJ.

But I've been on DW for a few days, like a lot of people, checking it out. The staff has flat out said it supports the RP transfers. They've done a lot in making the site more comfortable for people. They've also explained what is likely LiveJournal's reasons for changing the format. They've been nothing but respectful and have done their best to make people feel welcome. The comments page can be changed to something that looks almost exactly like old LJ, too, which I have enabled. It basically works exactly the same as old LJ except for some coding issues. This makes my vote obvious, but it's really not bad over there.

I understand people with paid accounts not wanting to leave because, well, money. I'm typing this with a paid account, and I have one or two more that aren't ending for a while. But at the same time, I think it's important to make sure that the game is accessible first and foremost to its players and potential players. There's big changes in store for LJ, and the promise of accessibility leaving with the old style.

Also, LJ's already lost me more than two months of userpics packages on one account, alone. It's rarely covered the entirety of the DDoS attacks for paid accounts, and combining all of the accounts I've lost time for, I've lost at least a month and a half of paid time, too. It's not the same, but if LJ continues this way, you don't think you're really going to get all the time you're paying for, do you? Or all the benefits? This is my personal preference, but I'd rather cut my losses now and move to a site that will actually give me what I pay for.

LOL AND THEN LJ CRASHED. THANK YOU, LJ for proving my point :|

[meatysoviet.livejournal.com]

Geez hun, you've really had the short end of this shitty stick, haven't you?

[drugsbeleid.livejournal.com]

My vote's on DW. I'm not particularly fond of the insanity theme at IJ, even if getting 100 free icons is cool. And it doesn't seem like we can import things?

I'm fed up with the things LJ keeps doing and I would much rather be at a site that cares about its userbase. The staff at DW appears to be very approachable and are quick to respond to inquiries and I'd love to be at a site like that and support them by buying paid time there.

If we end up staying, I'll stick around as long as the muse stays alive but I would definitely prefer to take our fun times elsewhere. It might take some time to get used to it and to reorganize things such as the friend add list, but I think it would be better in the long run.

[(Anonymous)]

Admiring the persistence you put into your blog and detailed information you offer. It's nice to come across a blog every once in a while that isn't the same out of date rehashed material. Excellent read! I've saved your site and I'm adding your RSS feeds to my Google account.

[youfartknocker.livejournal.com]

I'd rather not the game move, but, hey, I'm a weenie and don't want to deal with two sites at the same time. But if everyone else wants to move then by God, I'll move, too! Insanejournal seems like the best option (especially with people for paids, so they don't have to pay for more icons), but at the same time, I understand that some people find it offensive and even one person driven away because of that is one too many : (

Dreamwidth, then, is the other option- one that I'm comfortable with, even if the default style is a little ugly. However, unlike the other options, DW allows us to import entries, which is definitely why it's the best choice. Especially for players who have been here since the beginning, since I'm sure that's a lot of posts accumulated.

So, if we do move, DW would be the best option.

[player2]

Voting DW for all the above reasons listed. In every situation like this in the past, LJ has been willing to at least backpedal once the complaints built up. This time, they've shown no such willingness to do that, and in fact have done everything in their power to make it worse in every way possible. They're clear on the matter that they're going ahead with this decision, and thus far, all signs point to the fact that in the long run, fandom isn't part of their future plans. They'll probably wind up making things so unbearable for any fandomers who stick around that most people will pack up and leave sooner or later.

It's also gone beyond aesthetics and design for me. Aside from the perfectly valid complaints that this layout is hard on the eyes and the browser, and sacrifices functionality for design (and even then, it's kinda sacrificing both at once), the real kicker for me is that LJ's customer service has hit rock bottom at levels I thought even this shitty abuse team was incapable of reaching. I've heard horror stories about the abuse team's awful treatment of customers and users from both friends and from the accounts of other people, but this kind of solidifies it. Between the snide comments of Igrick and the snarking of various other LJ staff on Twitter that we'll "get used to it", I'd rather not have to stay in such a clearly unwelcoming environment for any longer than I have to, and I sure as hell don't want to give them any more money.

It's been steadily getting worse, and it will continue to get worse from here on out, because LJ's not budging on this. I don't think DW is ideal for this, but it's more ideal than IJ or Scribbld, and since the site was formed from a similar situation in the past (namely the Strikethrough incident)... they seem like they're trying to do everything LJ is failing to do. Plus, they're keeping a pretty level head about the whole thing, because some of the DW admins have gone on record trying to explain LJ's actions from an objective and business standpoint.

I don't think migrating to DW will be fun or necessarily easy, but I think it's the best and least stressful option in the long run. If we don't do it now, it's very possible LJ will implement something that will force us to do it later. Might as well do it now, while accounts are free to create without an invite code. And I dunno the progress on it, but I've heard DW is working on a community import feature, which will undoubtedly ease the transition a bit.

Which leaves the only issue to be the aforementioned "I have a paid account on LJ, and I may or may not want to move to DW, but if we do, I can't pay for one on DW too". I heard on Plurk that a few other games are putting together a "paid fund" for the players who are in this situation and had a paid on LJ for their characters -- if we do decide to migrate, why don't we try to do one of these? We could even do a fundraiser or something, since I know we have tons of artistic players here who can draw or write, and might be willing to pitch in for the purpose. (And I'd probably be willing to donate to something like this, myself... hey, belated Christmas present or early birthday present, anyone?)

[skillspanner]

...I like this idea, and I would definitely pitch in whatever money I could to help out for the people who can't afford their own paids! Every little bit helps, after all.

[areyouderpy.livejournal.com]

Editing this out entirely.

Okay, after days of evaluating it and watching how it affects others, and in turn affects my own RPing ability, I think I'll vote for the move as well. Partially, because it really is getting bothersome for a lot of people, and one can't RP alone. In the end I'd rather play with my friends than worry about site issues and how it's obviously stressing everyone out.

[bewilding.livejournal.com]

I voted for a community move ( and in the end I do support a community move ) though I will stay wherever Route decides to go.

The main push towards my supporting a move is not the aesthetic value of the site itself (that I can deal with if it becomes a necessity) but the actual values and pattern that seems to be going on when it comes to developers and staff. I don't believe that LJ will just stop with this update--the newest updates they've got lined up seem even worse than this one, and they really don't seem interested at listening to any of the complaints that have been voiced. I'd much rather move to a place where I could enjoy RPing--as inconvenient as it might be at first--then struggle to play in a place where all functions seem to be piling up against practicality and moving towards some Twitter-Facebook lovechild. It's less about the current changes and more about the attitude and potential future changes, which aren't exactly shining beacons of beautiful (no comment nesting, LJ? really?).

I've been thinking about it for a while and I think this is a decision I can better support in the long run. I'd rather play on a site that fits than a site whose main concern is evolving into something that isn't a good medium for my hobby.

[nasa-dreams.livejournal.com]

I personally have no issues with moving, though it'd have to be somewhere reasonably free...I don't have paid accounts and really cant forsee buying one.

If we do end up moving, I'd prefer it to still be a journal based game, if possible, though, I'm not sure how all those other sites work. The only place I've ever roleplayed has been LJ and anything outside it is rather foreign to me. I suppose in the end, I'll follow route wherever it decides to roost, because I love it so~

[nasa-dreams.livejournal.com]

After reading the comments, it seems I've gotten off rather easily in this whole mess. I think I'm going to fall in with the majority at the moment and say DW, if only for the reasons listed in the comments, as I've never been there.

I love this game and the people I've met through it. I don't want to lose that.

[deadfreesia.livejournal.com]

The main problem IMO is not release 88, even as problematic as its introduction has been. The main problem is that release 88 is part of a larger pattern in which LJ does something to infuriate its entire userbase every 6-12 months, then treats said userbase like excrement when it expresses displeasure at the change.

For years, LJ has repeatedly shown a blatant disregard for the opinions, wishes, freedoms and privacies of the userbase, only backpedaling and going back on unwanted changes for the most epic of the shitstorms. The introduction of ads, strikethrough and boldout, the attempted removal of the basic account in 2008, automatic payments getting turned on without the consent of the user, and periods in which locked content is accessible to unauthorized viewers are a few of the most noteworthy ones.

Then there's the outrageous treatment in direct interactions from staff. (http://factionary.livejournal.com/2116.html). I highly encourage people to read this entry in full.

I feel well beyond the kneejerk anger stage; I've adjusted to the changes from the latest release. I am tired of the pattern. Whether the comment pages go back to normal or not, I think it is naive to believe this is the last time the site will do something monumentally unwanted. It is on a downhill path that will only get worse the longer we stay. One doesn't need to be fatalistic or raging on heat-of-the-moment anger to have that point of view-- the history is all there. It also isn't a necessary state of mind for deciding there's no interest in sticking around for the next clusterfuck LJ causes. (Like this (http://bookshop.dreamwidth.org/1091598.html).)

Dreamwidth is going to great lengths to make the move as easy as possible. They've opened their account creation to be invitation-free through the end of the year. They're making upgrades to their servers to handle the increasing traffic. And their journal importing is absolutely amazing for its thoroughness. All of your entries, all of your comments, all of your tags, all of your icons and keywords (with credits), all of your profile data-- it's all there. They've also officially announced community imports coming in the next week or so. The hardest part is the issue of unused paid account time, and people very understandably not wanting to see their money wasted. But I believe that we're a creative group of people and with some collaboration, we can work out a system of transition so that this issue is resolved.

I know that moving to another website is a daunting prospect and inertia is a powerful force. The path of least resistance is to stay here. However, change is upon us one way or another. We can control that change with action or we can allow LJ to decide those changes for us by staying here. Frankly, I'm not comfortable on LJ anymore, and I have been trying to decide what I'm going to do with the games I'm in once my paid time runs out if they remain here. It's too soon for me to make any final decisions about that scenario, but I do think it's important for people to recognize that the prospect of losing current players exists even if we stay here. The schism resulting from this latest influx of changes is simply irreparable.

My vote is strongly in favor of Dreamwidth, but I'll follow the game to any site that is not here.

[nasa-dreams.livejournal.com]

This post clinched it for me. In fact, I think I'm just about to go over to Dreamwidth and make a general account. I honestly had no idea there was so much bullshit going on here at LJ. I guess I've been rather lucky in that respect.

[paladinlost]

I have multiple reasons not to want to move.

Firstly, there is the whole paid account thing. I renewed Cecil's for a whole year mere hours before the update happened. In fact, it was actually one of my Christmas presents, and it'd be extremely upsetting to lose a whole year + 2 icon packages like that, especially since my other game is very likely to move to Dreamwidth.

Which leads to my second point: every game is currently moving or talking about moving. Every single one of them. That means there's quite a lot of shuffling around going on already, leading to potential confusion and stress. I'd admittedly be more willing to move if it was something of an isolated choice.

Thirdly, there is the whole kneejerk reaction part, though the time we have to vote admittedly helps with that. They've already announced that they indeed to have a new commenting page that resembles the new one. For all we know, it'll get rid of most of our issues (though I admittedly have very little hope for the subject lines).

Fourth is even more subjective, but I have to admit that even now I'm quite attached to LJ. It has most of the communities I follow, and I've been there for years. I'm not certain I'll find the same atmosphere elsewhere. Even with all the new customers whenever LJ screws up, Dreamwidth just doesn't have the same activity and traffic. I do worry this will lead to a lack of visibility for the game, and perhaps even stagnation.

...I think I might have other points to make, but that's a start.

[bullieve.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely voting for a DW move as well! I'll be honest, I only really wandered over to it when everyone else did because of the temptation of snagging the journal names I never got to have before, which was addicting in itself. I'd made a DW back when it first opened in '09 and then never used it and when I went back I found it confusing to navigate, but only for basically a couple minutes, lmao. It really is quite simple and user-friendly, and anything that you can't locate you can always ask for help finding from a friend! I even found an add-on for the Chrome/Firefox add-on Stylish that allows you to change the basic appearance of one of the site layout so that it more resembles LJ's old look. Taking a stab at doing layouts in journals wasn't so bad, either (although I am a little disappointed about my tables I brought over from LJ).

I did just renew both my paids on LJ and I'm really, really PO'd that it's now a great big waste of money - not just if I do leave LJ, but because I can't use them much anyway with the way the site and RP as a whole has taken a dive. The fortunate part is that DW paids are super cheap, and their system is pretty fair, although me and a few friends have messaged the admins to suggest smaller increments for paid time so we don't have to pay quite as much all at once. They don't take Paypal, which is unfortunate (but they have good reasons for it), but they do take credit/debit and giftcards work too.

The real last straw for me on LJ is the support staff, though. I had an issue with buying my first paid on DW so I messaged them (with what was quite honestly a short and snippy message) and they got back to me within the hour with a full fix and explanation and apologies and it was just whoa. After the inexplicable phenomenon where people's automatic payments were getting turned on on LJ, which happened to me on one of my accounts, and the support staff called those people liars? Ah hell nah. The new commenting system does work for me, personally, even if it is clunky and slow and messy, but it's the treatment of the userbase that drove the nail into the coffin.

If Route does decide to stay I'm sure I can adapt, but I'm really hoping it does move. We all deserve a refreshing change to a place that isn't crap, as daunting a task as that may be.

[bywiseguidance.livejournal.com]

I'm going to vote to leave, for a few reasons, the largest being not the changed functionality (though that is very annoying), it is the changed attitude towards the userbase.

I stuck through Strikethrough and whatever else happened, but I haven't really seen said attitude change. In fact, it's gotten worse. At this point I feel like I've been sitting in a familiar, favorite restaurant, only to find the sandwich I ordered is suddenly a live chicken and I just have to 'get used to the changes' even though there is a valid complaint about having a live chicken pecking you in the face when you thought you were getting a sandwich.

Horrible figure of speech aside, the customer service is less than welcoming and the way they're dismissing these valid complaints of their userbase rubs me all kind of wrong.

Granted, I have nothing to lose since I haven't paid up any of my accounts recently, but even if I had, I think I would be answering the same way. There comes a time when it's time to protest bad customer service by taking your business elsewhere.

Even if we don't move, I'd suggest not paying up journals anymore and using AdBlock to deny advertisement revenue as best we can.

[usedhadokyuu.livejournal.com]

I'll freely admit that I 100% support a move to dreamwidth.

I want to say that I'm going to stick with Route wherever it's new home is. I probably will, although I'll admit that it'll be a lot tougher for me to stay here if we're still at livejournal. I love the game though and everybody in it so I'd be able to suck it up. At any rate.

I'm a huge supporter of Dreamwidth, and I was before this whole fiasco even unfolded. When I discovered it a year ago, I actually figured that I like the main layout more than LJ, I found the staff nicer than LJ, pretty much I discovered everything what people are seeing now. (Although the amount of effort Mark and Denise have put into this whole community imports among other things is absolutely incredible, imo.) So when the whole LJ explosion happened I got pretty excited, well, after the huge initial rage happened. This is a good opportunity for Dreamwidth to become a bigger site, and I'd love to see it get more activity. The only reason I didn't use it before is because the scene, and all my friends used livejournal.

Although at first I was absolutely livid with the whole changes, they've warmed up to me now. I mean, they're still pretty awful and I think this new commenting page is absolutely terrible, but it's possible to get around. Thing is that I'm actually having an issue getting tags done. At first I was stuck like a deer in headlights and I was just sort of... staring at everything in my inbox. One of the issues being that I was doing IC text messages, and the lack of a subject line made things more difficult for getting them done. Hell, lack of subject lines makes things difficult even for the organizational things in my journal, like my thread tracking. I know that there's way to bypass this and use workarounds, but I think it's just easier to go to a spot that has everything that we want, so we can just continue on as "normal".

The staff on LJ here are absolutely appalling. Like, I didn't have a lot of faith in them anyways, but they've clearly demonstrated that they can't even be respectful to their userbase. Igrick aside, there was one member of their staff that called people liars? I don't really think it's a good idea to stick with a site that has such contempt for the non-russian userbase.

idk I just rambled so I voted for dreamwidth. I wanna see the rp community there grow and r_29 being there would be cool.

[usedtelekinesis.livejournal.com]

I'll go with the game. I've been one of the poor saps getting migraines from the current default layout and while it'll feel like a waste of my Paid account money, I know I'll be able to buy time for my accounts there once February hits.

[serpensrex.livejournal.com]

I’m in favor of staying here for the time being, and slowly moving a mirror of the game over to another site in case future updates or staff behavior render Route unable to function as it is now. I know that many players probably feel this point has already been reached and we should move now, but that’s just my personal opinion.

This would also allow players who currently have paid time can use some of it or most of it before any sort of move is finalized since that’s a concern.

[meatysoviet.livejournal.com]

This sounds like a good idea, if we do move I mean.

[ordalias.livejournal.com]

I'm just slowly absorbing information I can from both games I'm in, and I'm just wondering on when this DW import will work? And how? I wouldn't want to lose entirely everything here from the move... so many good memories! And adjusting to Dreamwidth itself...

A lot of this seems to take a lot of time.

[usedwaterpulse]

So far DW has been working hard to make any moves seamless. There are already fully functioning Import options for personal journals. They just finalized and announced the community import feature as well, which should be out by the week's end as I understand it.

That means that all content from users character journals, icons (and keywords), the ic, and the ooc comms. will be preserved and imported as if they'd been on DW the entire time.

Even if something is missed in the first run (Unlikely) you can re-import later, say if someone doesn't have paid time on DW right now but gets it later for their user icons. Perfect example.

I tested it with a handful of RP journals and they were imported by the next day, some features were even immediate.

[soggypastry]

As crazy as the changes have been, and even with this many people frustrated as all hell and getting headaches with the layouts, I vote we stay, at least for now. Now before anyone gets on my case about this, think about it. A lot of us still have paids here, money we can't get back. We might as well put it to use, and with good portions of the site still functional, I don't really see why everyone's in such a hurry to scram. Yes, CS sucks. Yes, there was that payment "glitch" (which I swear wasn't a glitch...), but there's also the biggest games still here. Release 88 may not be getting rolled back, but it's too soon to tell if it's going to get any better or any worse; we need to give it a little time. Wait out the storm, as it were.

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't move at all; serpensrex said it best. A mirror, updated perhaps once a month or so, would give us options should push come to shove and LJ manages to get it's head deeper up it's butthole, but there are a lot of us still fond of LJ. I'll go where Route goes, but my personal opinion is that we stay for now. Let things settle, then make a decision later on when there's a clearer picture of what's going to happen to this site.

But, if we do move, DW does seem to be the best option because I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with issues about "insane" and "asylum", and hey, the import thing did work for person-level journals so it should work for comm-levels...hopefully.

[eliciadaddy.livejournal.com]

This. ♥

And as mentioned to you already on Plurk, if I were angry with a company that I'd already paid non-refundable money to, I'd want to make use of every last penny I paid and then when it comes time to renew, deny them that, instead of abandon a huge chunk of money. But I think that's my vindictive side showing; and I'm okay enough with the site that I can still use it without getting angry.

[usedbrine.livejournal.com]

I have castmates who can't access livejournal at all. I support the move, as soon as possible.

[alpha_stigma.livejournal.com]

I'm sticking with Route, whatever site it ends up at. I really enjoy this game, and that isn't going to change solely based on what site it's hosted on. If it stays, I'll stay with it. If it moves, I'll pick up and move with it.

That said, if we do move, I don't care either way about IJ or DW. I'm at another game on IJ at the moment, and I like it. Plus, a hundred userpics for a free account is amazing. But I can see the argument about it being offensive, too, even if I don't mind it myself. DW seems easy to use, too, even though I'm not as familiar with it.

[skillspanner]

I wanted to add in this essay on moving.

Someone else wrote it, but it hits a lot of the concerns people have. I'm not trying to use it as further argument, but more of a... much better articulation of what I said in my previous comment. It may be really helpful for people who are on the fence or don't really know the full spectrum of things. It includes some other helpful links too!

[abdications]

I'm 100% on-board with moving, but i'll go wherever the game goes. If we stay, i'm okay with that too. I personally have not had any problems with the new layout, but it is definitely a pain to navigate. After exploring DW, I've found that it's a much more comfortable fit.

IIRC, the staff did mention that more default icon space was next on the list after making comm importing possible - so that might be a con that will be lifted in time?

[martyrofbread.livejournal.com]

I had no problems either (which is incredible, because I'm usually the first one to have issues *lol*) but I've seen lots of people having issues with it, so that's why I support the move, no matter where we are going.

[hasearthbooks.livejournal.com]

So I spent the last few days trying to get used to the LJ changes, and I have to admit I kind of did, even if I don't really like those changes in and of themselves. ^^; (My face when I look at them even today = see icon.) My cousin showed me a LJ community that has managed to make their comment pages look more or less exactly like the old ones, maybe something like that could be implemented here, I don't know. I'm assuming it takes a good amount of tampering with CSS. Which I can't do.

But! I've already made mirror journals for Gorthan and a few of my non-Route characters on DW, and if the game moves there, I'll be more than happy to move as well.

So, uh, I choose not to vote, confident that the game will either stay or move to DW, since either is absolutely fine with me.

[hasearthbooks.livejournal.com]

Hi, um, as of December 31st, I've changed my mind. 8D; I'm having this thread in another comm that hasn't changed the style of its comment pages, and it's a thread I really care about. It has 140+ comments and I am sick and tired of the whole thing being completely unmanageable.

So I voted for moving to DW, even if I have done absolutely nada on my DW accounts yet. ^^;