Route 29: ｍｏｄｓ (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
these_balls) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
route_292011-05-17 03:31 pm
these_balls) wrote in route_292011-05-17 03:31 pm
Entry tags:
regarding Starters and Baby-Making
Three things:
1) SO WE HERD U WANTED SOME OLD STARTERS.
There are now 140.
In addition, because Larvitar are pseudo-Legendary pokémon, they've been given a cap of 10. We've never actually had ten as starters so this should be alright.
2) We've also added the bugs from the swarm-plot to the Availability List, as well as the two found at the Ruins of Alph. You no longer need to contact us about what to find there! We've linked what's there and probably someday maybe we'll find a better way to add it there but until then have that link.
3) PEOPLE WHO BREED, GET OVER HERE!
Two things:
1) Would you all prefer a breeders-specific community in order to keep free eggs and whatnot in order instead of using the OOC community? If so, any ideas for a name or would you like one of us to think of something?
and 2) We've heard from numerous people that there's an excess of eggs. Because of this, it will be capped. Although, we don't want to cap it too high or too low, so I had a question for you guys: How much do you think is too much? This can be in terms of too many eggs per pokémon, per week, from pokémon each week? etc. Anything you can think of, go ahead and list, and feel free to discuss amongst each other as well!
1) SO WE HERD U WANTED SOME OLD STARTERS.
There are now 140.
In addition, because Larvitar are pseudo-Legendary pokémon, they've been given a cap of 10. We've never actually had ten as starters so this should be alright.
2) We've also added the bugs from the swarm-plot to the Availability List, as well as the two found at the Ruins of Alph. You no longer need to contact us about what to find there! We've linked what's there and probably someday maybe we'll find a better way to add it there but until then have that link.
3) PEOPLE WHO BREED, GET OVER HERE!
Two things:
1) Would you all prefer a breeders-specific community in order to keep free eggs and whatnot in order instead of using the OOC community? If so, any ideas for a name or would you like one of us to think of something?
and 2) We've heard from numerous people that there's an excess of eggs. Because of this, it will be capped. Although, we don't want to cap it too high or too low, so I had a question for you guys: How much do you think is too much? This can be in terms of too many eggs per pokémon, per week, from pokémon each week? etc. Anything you can think of, go ahead and list, and feel free to discuss amongst each other as well!
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I don't think there should be a cap in the game, because that's sort of unfair when you have characters like Souji who have a breeding center that puts out how many eggs every so often? He has a lot of pokemon. That's going to make it hard on the people who just want to breed five or six eggs and will get cockblocked in that regard relatively fast.
At the same time, I think it's a good idea to give each player a limit on how many they can breed. My personal rule is no more than 6 eggs per pokemon per month. Since Ken was my only breeder until now, and he only has two Pokemon that would breed, there wasn't exactly a surplus of Pokemon each time.
But when it comes to the more rare pokemon like Dratini, Eevee and the starters, maybe there should be a little more strictness, like how it might take longer for a rare egg to hatch, having fewer at a time--I mean, there has to be a reason why they're so rare in the wild. One egg or two makes more sense than having them breed like wild.
Not all breeders breed all the time, which would make it hard to have a game cap. Some do, sure, like I said, Souji does, but there are characters who breed very, very rarely. And with a game cap, I don't see them having as much of a chance to do their more rare breeding.
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A per-pokémon or per-trainer/breeder cap seems to be a more likely decision! (Everyone seems to like that idea, that's awesome.) I like the idea of restricting the rarer ones to less eggs a month, so that doesn't seem too hard to add at all.
So with Ken, if he had two pokémon breeding six, does he go around three each? Or does it switch depending on circumstances/pokémon? I'm trying to gauge a bit of an estimate.
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Oh, per pokemon per month. Sorry, I might not have been clear. That means he has all of twelve available each month, if they breed. Six Cubones and six Bulbasaur at max. I think the first time I had four Cubones available, maybe five. Really, I think it's something we should already be policing ourselves on, but that doesn't appear to be working. If limits go down based on rarity, I'd personally drop my max amount of eggs to four for Cubone, since they're classified as uncommon, and two or three for Bulbasaur because they're classified as rare.
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The limit might not necessarily mean the amount of posts goes down, just that it might decrease the amount in each post. But it probably depends on if people like to post them all in a batch or break them down a bit and how often each person posts. SO MANY CONDITIONS, MY GOODNESS!
...I like those names! /notes them too
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And, really, it won't cut down on flist spam, since one way or another you're going to watch it. It's like putting intros on a new comm--one way or another, people are going to see it. It'll just be under a different comm. And if people just don't friend it, it kind of takes away the point of breeding, because no one's going to see it. Maybe moving egg posts to the spam comm might be a better idea than OOC, but adding another comm might just kind of. Make TOO MANY COMMSSSSSS. We're not really a comm-based game, or I could see setting up another one. It really is all journal based.
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I wouldn't want it to move to the spam comm because, egg posts are more based on changes to the actual game, unlike memes and random videos and whatnot. If we end up making a breeder's comm and it doesn't work as well, we could always switch over to the OOC again. Nothing's going to be fully set in stone just yet!
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And if you get rid of the rarity and throw all the pokemon into the wild, it'll bring up the problem of "where is the challenge?" A big point of the original games are walking through the same patch of grass in wait for that super rare pokemon and crying as it got away or you made it faint. STORY. OF. MY. LIFE. screw you chansey.
Maybe you could work something out to prevent that--having pokemon only showing up in one hard to get to area. I honestly think that what you did with the starters is smart--they're only available in the Ilex Forest, Mount Mortar and the Lake of Rage, if I remember right--it made them somewhat rare in the wild, but still attainable.
... I'm not sure any of that made any sense. I feel like I'm talking in circles.
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That's how I caught my Sawk. Maaaang. I hate it but I was so angry I haaaad to.
The lists can always be tweaked! I'll chat with Okami and see if there's something we could move around with this.
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Though I do think Pokemon only available in the Safari Zone probably should start to spread out. I mean, no one is going to want to go to Cianwood to get a Cubone.
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The starters are one thing, naturally, but other things are probably going to get around. And things being rare is one thing, the fact is, a lot of things just aren't on there at all to begin with. I'll never get over Murkrow, a one-stage CROW Pokemon, not being around with Hoothoot during the night in the original GSC. But alas.
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I think the challenge of trying to find the more rare Pokemon--Dratini, Gyarados, Clefairy, evolutions, etc--is part of what makes the game fun. If everything is suddenly available in multitudes of places, it kind of takes away from the challenge. Breeding should be supplementary, and available for certain Pokemon. Cubones are uncommon, and not everyone needs or wants one.
Along with a limit on how many rare eggs a trainer can breed at any given time, I don't see why it wouldn't work to have rare Pokemon like Clefairy, Gyarados and Dratini only be in one place. I don't think anyone wants to make breeding redundant, only cut down on it.
We can't have the perfect team. We just can't. We cannot have everything we want, and I think it'd be a lot more fun for people to actually put effort into so-and-so trying to get this Pokemon or that. This is a game, a role playing game, and it's based on Pokemon. What better thing to actually post about than GODDAMN IT'S HARD FOR ME TO CATCH THIS INSERTPOKEMONHERE.
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That's not what I'm saying though? I'm saying make MORE things available in more places, not spread out the few we have - and even the common things are in ridiculously few places. Not to mention how swarms and such should have drastically altered the environment this way or that at some point down the road anyway, as it has.
Along with a limit on how many rare eggs a trainer can breed at any given time, I don't see why it wouldn't work to have rare Pokemon like Clefairy, Gyarados and Dratini only be in one place.
I'm not looking at it now, but I'm... fairly certain these things are all pretty rare on the list? What's the issue here, exactly? The rare (or "rare") things can be rare, but that's not what I'm getting at at all.
We can't have the perfect team. We just can't.
Says who? And by what definition and standards? If you travel or buy the right eggs, you should be able to. ANYONE should be able to. At the very least, a team to make them happy should be perfectly within reason. If you make it impossible to catch a certain Pokemon (which was what the Safari Zone and the like was for in the games) then... yeah, people WILL probably want to go back to breeding down the road. Why make it harder than it has to be?
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You're taking what I'm saying out of context. I am saying that the "rare" Pokemon should be harder to find, which would make sense because they are rare. And I just said certain Pokemon should spread out. Like Cubone, which has never been anything more than "uncommon." It should be available in warm, dry mountains, which, in Kanto, was kind of its territory. But if Chansey are available in five or six places it kind of removes the point of that specific Pokemon. It was considered the be rare. Chansey. Chancy. Clefairy are rare Pokemon, only able to be found under certain conditions and considered to be aliens if I remember right. Eevee are only available by being given to you, which makes me wonder where they live, but they are rare for one reason or another. Dratini are dragons and rare because of that.
All what things? I've seen people breed Mareep and Growlithe, both of which are considered common Pokemon. I'm saying that the limit should drop when you get into Eevees, Dratini and starters.
Have have you ever played a Pokemon game? Because I've played every generation. And I have always had one Pokemon that I have wanted that I couldn't get because I was playing a certain version. If I played HeartGold, I couldn't get a Vulpix. If I played SoulSilver, I couldn't get a Growlithe. Same with FireRed and LeafGreen. I can't get a Plusle in White, but I can't get a Minun in Black. Half the game wants an Eevee in their characters' teams if breeding them like they are is indicative at all. And I'm not innocent of this, Ken has an Umbreon. But not everyone can logically have an Eevee. That's the point of rarity.
Just like IRL, not everyone can have a pet platypus, not everyone in Route can have a Dratini.
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I'm speaking in general, because I don't want something for "rare" Pokemon to apply to ALL Pokemon, since it needs to and should be made clear - and yes, I have played the games, which is why I'm saying something. GSC, in particular, had some flat out shitty placing of Pokemon to make things "rare". Murkrow, for instance, was "rare" for no reason whatsoever except that the game designers made it that way, and if you want to come up with some excuse that it should be, that's your perogative. I'm saying, instead of doing that, we can fix what was quite obviously broken. Obviously a Cubone isn't going to be wandering around in the wild grass or the ocean or on the beach, but I wasn't even talking about that.
Furthermore, version exclusives? That's a marketing thing-slash-to get people to trade, and when you consider those Pokemon aren't even that rare? Or you could just trade or breed for it? Get the other game? We aren't playing the Pokemon game, we're playing something based off it, and, like I said before, there's no reason whatsoever to make things harder than they need to be. Not only that, there's not another route_29 to go to to catch the other version's worth of things. There's one, and we need to make allowances for that.
And yeah. With the things that are rare and make sense being rare? I... see no problems, and I said that from the start.
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In your comment you said, "[H]aving someone spending two weeks, as that's how rarity has been handled so far, on a route that may only be a few days or so to travel normally, is kind of unrealistic as it is." You also said in your next reply to Hat:
First: honestly, I don't see why that would be unrealistic. Even in the actual video games, we as players will spend hours running through one patch of grass in search of that one Pokémon you just can't catch, when normally walking through that particular part of the region might take just three minutes. For a character to spend two weeks on a normally three-day because he heard there was a rare Pokémon there he really really wants to see or catch, as long as it is in-character for said character, does not sound unreasonable to me.
Whether a character does find the Pokémon is, really, up to his or her mundane. Put bluntly, a mundane should know their character enough to say that if their muse has a ridiculous amount of luck, they will run across the rare Pokémon easily; if the muse is characterized by terrible luck, they won't find it either for a long time or not at all. How that is handled is the responsibility of the mundane, and should be left up to them.
However, just because it is up to a mundane, I'll state here that a rare Pokémon is a rare Pokémon. Like in our out-of-game world, there are certain species found only in a few areas around the globe, and it's logical that this is the same with the Pokémon. It makes getting to those certain areas that hold those Pokémon a challenge, which is not unreasonable or unrealistic and, taking Route_29's premise into account, not a bad thing.
In addition, say that a character does catch a rare Pokémon. Obviously, it is up to them to breed that Pokémon or not. The concern that arises then is the quantity of eggs that Pokémon would breed, but before I get to that, I'd like to point out that sources such as Bulbapedia has, on each Pokémon species' page, a chart that shows the male-female ratio of said Pokémon.
For example, there are about four times more male Eevees than there are female Eevees, which means that roughly for out of five times an Eevee mates, the Eevee would end up being the father and unless - such as in Souji's case - the "mother" is a genderless Ditto, the resulting egg would not belong to the Eevee species.
I'd like to think that mundanes and trainers would for the most part take that into consideration... but what I'm trying to say here is that there are multiple factors that tie into the rarity of a Pokémon, and even if it could be caught, whether it can breed often is also debatable, and the mods and other players commenting here have addressed the egg cap. A rare Pokémon may lay less eggs than a common species such as Rattata, and as such, even if the trainer goes down the road to breederdom, putting a cap on eggs, and putting a lower cap on the rare Pokémon species, can help control that.
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This will work if we assume that Route = purely a video game and not bound by any logic or reality whatsoever. And really, in the game you still could find a rare Pokemon, as you say, depending on how lucky you are. What's more, "rare" Pokemon might be herd Pokemon - what would you do then?
Moving on, is that game example really the best one to make? Small routes made for game convenience can't really compare to ones people are actually walking, especially when the player character might have taken a lot longer crossing over that area. It's... a game, after all, no one is going to make a realistic route of length, but if we're looking at it from the standpoint that these are real routes - as they've been turned into - not stretches of land that are a few yards long, well... Yeah.
For example, there are about four times more male Eevees than there are female Eevees, which means that roughly for out of five times an Eevee mates, the Eevee would end up being the father
That's not necessarily true, actually. The egg ratio applies each time it breeds, so it doesn't mean "Out of every five Eevee eggs, one will be female"; it means "every Eevee egg has a one in five chance to be female". You could still have five Eevee eggs hatch all female, it'd just be some kind of freak miracle that it happened. ... Which is the nerd in me talking, but really, that's what I'm saying.
This does not need to be as complicated as you're trying to make it sound. A cap, as suggested in this post, should be more than enough.
Getting to certain species around the globe and such:
That's great, and for rare Pokemon, that works. But when we talk about common and even uncommon things, this is something ENTIRELY of our own creation, and I simply do not see the need to restrict ourselves as players as much as you and Hat seem to want to. As it was, Route's been really, really limited in terms of wild Pokemon, and I would hate to see that to get even worse, not better. If Route was "smaller" and people could travel faster, that's great, but if you're seriously expecting players to wait months to get a Totodile or something? Or maybe a year+ to get Hoenn/Sinnoh/certain Kanto Pokemon in the wild? That's just ridiculous.
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Should be able to does not always lead to a certain scenario definitely happening. Everyone SHOULD be able to get the team they want, but reality strikes here. Things don't always work out the way we want them to, and that sounds realistic and reasonable to me.
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Thing is, you're having things be exactly be like the games on one hand... but then pulling the reality card on this one. You really can't have it both ways. In the games, and even in Route as it is now, you could arguably get what a character considers a perfect team. I say "what a character considers" simply because Joe might have one ideal while Mary might have another altogether. In the games though? You could definitely get a perfect team, so if you want to strictly go by the games, which it sounds like you do, on a lot of levels at least, then a perfect team should be more than possible.
Seriously, what's going to stop them? Is someone going to shoot them if they try to catch, buy, or trade for that one Pokemon? That sounds pretty ridiculous if you ask me.